Comments on: Once again I’m left wondering why I’m accused of moral relativism

By: Nimravid

Nimravid — Tue, 11 Mar 2008 17:18:42 +0000

Catering to their religious prejudices on a topic like that would be abandoning ordinary academic standards and rewarding religious content, both of which the bill says aren’t supposed to be done.

Don’t get me wrong, I think the bill is redundant and the product of religious people who feel “discriminated against” in the absence of actual violations of 1st amendment rights, but I don’t think it will pass and if it does doubt it will make any substantial difference in current practice at all.

By: Evil Bender

Evil Bender — Tue, 11 Mar 2008 02:03:43 +0000

Because a student can conceivably claim that its “discrimination based on the religious content of the submission by the student” to require them to answer a science question with actual science, rather than with their unsupported religious views.

If that’s not the intent of the bill’s sponsors, surely they could rewrite it to make that clear. Somehow I doubt they will.

By: Nimravid

Nimravid — Tue, 11 Mar 2008 01:15:38 +0000

How do you figure that? The bill says assignments should be graded based on “ordinary academic standards”.

By: Evil Bender

Evil Bender — Tue, 11 Mar 2008 00:49:03 +0000

Nimravid: I disagree. The bill is very vaguely worded, and at very least could potentially interpreted to allow students to hide ignorance behind an inappropriate “my religion says it” cloak, which would undermine the very concept of education.

kenmueller: I’m amused by your claim that being religious makes someone a member of a minority. Students don’t need their religious views protected. That’s already in the constitution. They need to be free to learn at school, and to not have their education undercut by others’ religious beliefs.

By: kenmueller40

kenmueller40 — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 22:25:32 +0000

Dear Ms Bender,
I may be a little off, but I will still hazard a guess that the purpose of the bill, at least as far as quoted above by Nimravid, was to protect a threatened minority, that is, students of a religious persuasion, and aimed at people who reason the same way you do in your original note. Cheers.

By: Nimravid

Nimravid — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 20:26:28 +0000

Did you go read the text of the bill? I think it has been misinterpreted.

“Students may express their beliefs about religion in homework, artwork, and other written and oral assignments free from discrimination based on the religious content of the submission by the student. Homework and classroom work shall be judged by ordinary academic standards of substance and relevance and against other legitimate pedagogical concerns identified by the school. Students shall not be penalized or rewarded on account of religious content. If the assignment given by a teacher involves writing a poem, the work of a student who submits a poem in the form of a prayer (for example, a psalm) should be judged on the basis of academic standards, including literary quality, and not penalized or rewarded on account of its religious content.”

http://webserver1.lsb.state.ok.us/2007-08HB/HB2211_int.rtf

So it looks like a kid can write, “I think the earth is 6,000 years old” on a test as long as he also writes “but we learned in class it is 4.65 billion years old”. Given we already have the 1st amendment I don’t see what the necessity for this addition is.

The bill also tries to clear the way for student speakers to mention their religious convictions, if any, at certain events without their viewpoints being construed as establishment of religion. Again, not sure if this is needed, perhaps it clarifies existing law? At this point this bill looks mostly irrelevant, and only possibly a bad idea. We need more information.

Primary sources always trump secondary ones.

By: I don’t know what to say « The United States of Jamerica

I don’t know what to say « The United States of Jamerica — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 00:36:56 +0000

[...] to say Published March 9, 2008 religious right , ridiculous This is literally the most absurd thing I’ve ever heard of: The Oklahoma House of Representatives Education Committee has just approved House Bill 2211. The [...]